Why Love Feels So Hard — And How to Finally Feel Safe in Your Relationships (with Jillian Turecki)

Mark Hyman, MD

Dr. Mark Hyman is leading a health revolution—one focused on using food as medicine to support longevity, energy, mental clarity, happiness, and so much more. Mark Hyman, MD is a practicing family physician and an internationally recognized leader, speaker, educator, and advocate in the field of Functional Medicine. He is the founder and director of The UltraWellness Center, Founder and Senior Advisor for the Cleveland Clinic Center for Functional Medicine, a fifteen-time New York Times best-selling author, and Board President for Clinical Affairs for The Institute for Functional Medicine. He is the founder and chairman of the Food Fix Campaign, dedicated to transforming our food and agriculture system through policy.

He is a co-founder and the Chief Medical Officer of Function Health. He is the host of one of the leading health podcasts, The Dr. Hyman Show with 150+ million downloads. Dr. Hyman is a regular medical contributor to several television shows and networks, including CBS This Morning, Today, Good Morning America, The View, Fox, and CNN.

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Full Transcript

Automatically generated. Please forgive any typos or errors in the following transcript. It was generated by a third party and has not been subsequently reviewed by our team.

Jillian Turecki
What you're afraid of is that you are not good enough, and that because you're not good enough, you are somehow going to be deprived of love. That is the fear that underlies all problems in relationships.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Jillian Tarecki is a renowned relations expert. She's a New York Times bestselling author. She's a host of podcast, Jillian on Love. Jillian has helped millions of people over the last twenty years to revolutionize their relationship with themselves so that they can transform their romantic relationships. We reached out to our audience, and we let them know you were coming on the podcast.

And the number one topic they wanted to know about was emotional regulation and managing triggers.

Jillian Turecki
Nine times out of 10, we're projecting. We're not seeing our partner. We're seeing our ex. We're seeing mom. We're seeing dad, and we're seeing things that we haven't resolved inside ourselves and making our partner the enemy.

This is the most important key to self regulation, is stopping the story inside your head that is making your partner into the enemy.

Dr. Mark Hyman
How can couples rebuild a connection if it's faded or it's lost?

Jillian Turecki
You cannot change another person. You can only change yourself. You have to have the mindset of, I'm gonna show up in the best way that I possibly can for me. And if it changes things great and it doesn't, then I know that maybe this isn't the right relationship for me.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Talk about heartbreak because I think it's something people really struggle with.

Jillian Turecki
People write into me all the time saying, it's been two years. When am I gonna get over this person? And what I've discovered is that they're not really grieving the relationship anymore. They are actually stuck in the story of what happened. Number two, something else is going on in their life that is making it difficult to move on.

They can't get themselves out of the emotional state of sadness or whatever the grief because there's other things that are not working in their life. So therefore, the path to healing is

Dr. Mark Hyman
Welcome, Jillian, to the doctor Heiman show. I'm really glad to have you talking about relationships because they are one of the most fraught areas of people's lives that perplex them, confuse them, break their hearts, have them spinning, don't know how to navigate, don't know what's true, don't have the right road map, and and there's so much chaos in relationships. I see it in my own community. I've certainly been married many times and divorced three times, so I get it.

Jillian Turecki
Love you.

Dr. Mark Hyman
I'm good at. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an expert in relationships now,

Jillian Turecki
honestly. Exactly.

Dr. Mark Hyman
So much experience. So, you know, I wanna dive in first by asking you about your own story because, you know, you didn't sort of come into the world born with these insights that you've developed around love and relationships. They've they've come after a lot of hardship and your own struggles and your own childhood challenges and with your parents that that that led to sort of a whole bunch of stuff that was kinda not right in you, and that you had to heal. And and I'd love you to just sort of maybe share your personal story of heartbreak loss, transformation, your mother's death, your divorce, all the things that you you struggle with to help you understand that it's not the other person. It's it's it begins with you, which is the title of your book, which is what we're gonna be talking about.

Everybody definitely get a copy of that book. It's out now. It begins with you, basically, about how to heal your relationships and heal yourself, and I think it's an incredible book. So I think you're writing it, but let's dive into your story.

Jillian Turecki
I taught yoga for many years, almost like twenty years in New York City. So I was always obsessed with the relationship between the mind and the body. I was always obsessed with how do we deepen our relationship with self, and and that includes our minds and our bodies. I was teaching yoga and always felt like there was something more that I wanted to do with my life. I but but I didn't know what that was.

And, also, I was very much what many women want, especially in their, you know, twenties and thirties. They want to get married and have kids. So I would I didn't know I wasn't raised I was raised with the the understanding that you just follow certain rules. Like, you follow, like, the way things are supposed to be done. Like, I was supposed to have a job and have a four zero one k and get married and and have kids.

And was like, no. I'm gonna be your teacher. I'm not gonna have a four zero one k, but I'll get married. And I met the man who would become my husband and then my ex husband. And I always say that our relationship before we got married was about 90% great and 10% extremely problematic.

Problem but really problematic, like, the things that that you shouldn't ignore. But we think that marriage, a lot of people think and a lot of women think that marriage is that ultimate commitment that's going to give her the security that she needs to feel comfortable in life and in Yeah. But the reality is is that marriage just magnifies, you know that 10% became the 90%, and the 90% that was good actually became the 10%. So it was a very challenging marriage, and I felt very lost in it. I didn't know what to do.

And towards the the right before or about six months before we we ended it, my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer. But the morning of 06/02/2014, I woke up to a miscarriage, miscarriage, and he decided to leave the marriage via text. He said he wasn't coming home. And days prior, I had just discovered that my I was just told that my mother only had about a couple months left to live.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Got it coming and going.

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. I yeah. It was it was just it was it was it was a it was a terrible day. And so I that was a day where just my whole world fell apart, and I remember distinctly having this thought, like, oh, this is what it means for your life to fall apart. And, it was a very shocking time.

And I you know, it took me a long time to really put pick myself off the ground and to pick up the pieces, but I became obsessed with two things during that time. Number one, how am I going to get myself out of this hole? Like, how am I gonna feel better? How am I going to move on? And then number two, which was was the which is the obsession I continue to have to this day is what makes a relationship work?

Because I was shocked, devastated, and beside myself that I was in this position that this didn't work. And it was a real moment of, I guess, I have to look in the

Dr. Mark Hyman
mirror. Reckoning.

Jillian Turecki
Yes. That's when you

Dr. Mark Hyman
kinda came up with the idea it begins with you. Like, maybe there's something

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. I mean, I I don't think

Dr. Mark Hyman
how you were showing up or Yeah. I think was. Or patterns were. I

Jillian Turecki
think there was just that moment of, you know, I am the common denominator, know, in all my relationships. It doesn't mean that I am the problem. It doesn't mean that I am the only problem. It it just means that my relationships are a reflection of my choices. They are a reflection of my capacity.

They are a reflection of my skill set or lack thereof. They're a reflection of my self esteem and self worth. They are a reflection of my childhood conditioning. I had to take a look.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, it's so interesting that you bring up the childhood conditioning because it you know, we think we're grown ups and adults, and we've evolved and developed as human beings, and then you get a relationship. And so like what Rob Doss says, you think you're enlightened, then you go home for Thanksgiving.

Jillian Turecki
Yes. Exactly. Then you spend time with family. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. Exactly. And so I think this is the true of relationships. After couples are together for a while, the the electricity kind of dims a little bit. The sparks stop flying as as intently, but the reality of of their original childhood love software emerges, which is based a lot on how we experienced our parents, how they treated us, how they treated each other, the models we had, the beliefs we basically formed as a result of that, and how we carry those unconsciously into our relationships, and how those really form the basis of our dysfunction in relationships.

And then we have to figure out how to unpack that and repair that, and and to kind of rewrite our corrupted love software. And I certainly had to do that in my life, and it was incredibly painful, difficult process, but but I think, you know, there's no roadmap for this. And that your book, it it begins with you, is kind of a road map for this. And we we reached out to our audience at YouTube, and we let them know you were coming on the podcast. And and the number one topic they wanted to know about was emotional regulation and managing triggers.

You know, I I once heard that triggers are your teachers. If you get triggered, that's a good thing because it means there's something to look at. You know? Maybe there's something with your partner really that you need to pay attention to, or maybe it's something unresolved in you that you're projecting on your partner and creating chaos. So how do we kind of understand if it's it's old trauma in our childhood software, or whether it's something in the moment that really is real?

And how do you regulate yourself in the heat of all these triggers to kind of manage that? And how do you recognize this emotional dysregulation? Because I've seen it a lot. I've seen it in partners. I've seen it in friends.

I you know? Yeah. Just people come apart, and then they can't hold a steady state of being in the present moment with their partner in their adult self. It's like I call it the amygdala hijack. You know?

It's like your amygdala is your fight or flight part of your brain. So your amygdala hijacks the the the stage and then takes over.

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. And then when that takes over, isn't it also referred to as the reptilian brain? So there were no longer actually behaving like human beings. We're kind of really in our most primal state reacting.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs.

Jillian Turecki
Exactly. So there's a lot to unpack here. The first thing that I wanna say is that it's not just, it's not just our love software from childhood. It's cultural as well. We don't live in a culture that that romanticizes romanticism, that that that sees love as what as lust.

So we are we are we've been taught by society, by art, and by cultural narratives that that loving someone is actually lust when it's not. Those are two very different things. Now a lot of relationships fall apart because of two things. One is two people are not actually doing what it takes to keep some of that passion alive. You know, they don't the the passion is very motivating.

When we feel passionate about anyone or anything, that's what motivates us. Yeah. In a relationship, in a long term relationship, that passion, what changes is that in the beginning, you just feel it because you're under the spell of chemistry and attraction, which is which is very as as I'm sure you can can attest to is very biological and very hormonal. Right? There's there's there's all these hormonal flares that are happening.

Then to keep the passion alive, we actually have to be more passionate in the relationship. We're thinking that it actually is something that's coming outside of ourselves versus being curious about the person versus, like, bringing some of that passion home to our relationship. And then also understanding that, like, all that crazy chemistry in the beginning of a relationship is not an emotional connection. That's something else. And if you can learn to value the friendship part, then that's then that is actually going to be what's going to help you have a longer relationship.

So I just we're we're gonna get to the emotional marry

Dr. Mark Hyman
your best friend kinda what you're saying?

Jillian Turecki
Well, you know, it's so interesting. Yes. And, yes, you wanna marry your best friend because of if you want to be in a relationship over the long haul, don't you want someone who you can trust and you can who you know really has your back when your mom dies, when your dad dies, when God forbid your child dies, when something terrible happens?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.

Jillian Turecki
You want your best friend. You don't want the person who's just great in bed who you can't trust. That's the last person you want when the shit hits the fan in your life. But at the same time, you don't want you don't wanna just nurture the friendship. You also wanna nurture the passion part of the relationship.

Anyway, so I really felt like that was important because we tend to blame everything on childhood childhood trauma, and it's just simply that it plays a role, but it's not everything. We have to understand just our conditioning of just watching a rom com and that we don't understand what it really means to love someone. Okay. So getting back into self regulation and when we're triggered. Yeah.

It's really hard. And some people, like, I'm a very fiery person. So it's like if I get upset about something, like, I'm gonna get really upset. Right? And, like, we and some people are just more reactive than others.

And and part of that is cultural. You know, I know two people who are married. He comes from an Italian family. She comes from a Nordic family.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Like totally different.

Jillian Turecki
Totally different. So when he's when he's happy, he is really happy. When he's upset, he is really upset. He talks with his hands, and there's so much drama, and she's more reserved. Now interestingly enough, that's part of what attracted them to each other because they're so different.

But how are they going to be with conflict and self regulation? So she might be totally dysregulated and triggered, but her go to might be to to shut down, to get cold as ice, to pull away. He might just get angry or loud. And so what they have to both understand is that, one, they are responding to each other's different styles. Number two, he needs to go take a walk.

She probably needs to go take a walk. And so the self regulation when you're triggered, you said something about projection. Nine times out of 10, we're projecting. Nine times out of 10, we when we're upset with our partner and, of course, this this is not always. Sometimes our partner legitimately does something that upsets us.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Of course.

Jillian Turecki
But nine times out of 10, we're not seeing our partner. We're seeing our ex. We're seeing mom. We're seeing dad, and we're seeing things that we haven't resolved inside ourselves and and making our partner the enemy. This is the most important key to self regulation is stopping the story inside your head that is making your partner into the enemy.

Dr. Mark Hyman
One person said to me once, you know, we're meaning making machines. Yeah. We tend to make meanings and throw interpretations and projections onto the world around us, including our partners. And that's what gets us into trouble. And we don't even stop to question our assumptions or beliefs or projections.

We just think they're real, and they feel real in our body, but they're mostly not.

Jillian Turecki
Yes. Yes. So in the moment, you take a deep breath. You take a deep breath, and you say, I'm gonna, know

Dr. Mark Hyman
Pause and go away.

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. Go for a walk. I don't know. Go work out. Take a shower.

Take a nap. Maybe you need a drink of water. Maybe you need a little food. You know, maybe you're hungry.

Dr. Mark Hyman
One of one of the biggest unlocks in this situation is is is an interesting one, which is I I was sort of taught by my friend who's a life coach, Lauren Zander. And, you know, she basically said, if you can if you can only have one crazy person in the room at a time, that's kind of the rule. And so someone's kind of in their amygdala or their reptilian brain, the other person has to breathe and let it all be received and not put meaning on it, not defend it, not try to argue with it, not try to fight it, because that's just gonna make it worse. Yeah. And so you kind of reflect back that you get what they're saying, that you that they feel heard, they feel understood, they feel validated.

Even if you think they're 100% wrong, they're still entitled to their perspective and opinion. And as soon as you do that, it often transmutes. You don't have to fix it or change it. And it was it's kind of like a it's kind of like a party trick, but it really works. And I've I've used it in in live situations where some of other person was just kind of really out of control.

And Yes. And just by by actually feeling validated in their perspective and seen and heard, it like diffuses all that energy. But it's it's really hard to hold in your body because you have to be like a you know, like, kind of like a what's the world? Kinda like water, like the Dallas. You just let it flow and not let you know, be a hard surface that it bumps against.

And and that's hard. But it's And it's really a powerful tool.

Jillian Turecki
I I agree that it's a powerful tool. I think I think it's a worthwhile aim for everyone to aim to be the calm person in the room. I think that that's just always a better I think that's a good pursuit is to be the calm person.

Dr. Mark Hyman
That's a good idea. It's it's not it's not always possible.

Jillian Turecki
It no. Well, actually, it's always possible. It's always in your control.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Sometimes when you're hijacked, though, it doesn't feel like it.

Jillian Turecki
No. Exactly. But but but our behavior is a 100% in our control. Mhmm. And so yes.

So in those moments where you have allowed yourself to to lose control, that's when you have to just say, you know what? I feel out of control right now. Just gonna, like, take a time out. I'll come back. Or I'm really sorry.

I'm very, very like, things that I've used in the past and help people use in the past that just say, you know what? I'm really worked up right now. I'm so sorry. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a minute. Like, I'm upset right now, and I'm gonna take a minute.

But this this all of this requires so much practice.

Dr. Mark Hyman
And it's awareness.

Jillian Turecki
And it's what you're doing outside of the relationship that matters. So people I have found that people who have a regular meditation practice or who really or have other sort of practices that help them ground, then I find that they are less reactive in those moments. It doesn't mean that they're not having reaction. It doesn't mean that they're not getting upset, but they're they are less likely to to let their amygdala, like, take over their entire physiology.

Dr. Mark Hyman
That's really important. And I think having that capacity to create a pause between your thought and your words and your actions is really hard for most people. It just collapses, so it always seems like one. And I think, you know, Victor Frankl said, you know, between stimulus and response, there's a pause, and in that pause lies a choice, and that choice lies our freedom. Right?

So so he was in a concentration camp, for God's sake, and he was able to be liberated inside because he didn't let the the Nazi guards actually take his psychological freedom Yes. And give them the power over his emotional state, which is, I mean, pretty extraordinary. I think most of us don't have that extreme, but it's an interesting framework to think about and to be able to slow down enough to to actually create that pause and to not believe your thoughts. I mean, I think, you know, my my friend said we have a lot of ants in our head, automatic negative thoughts. Or we, you know, believe every stupid thought we have, and we don't have to believe every thought we have.

They're just they're just thought form. That's why when you say meditation's good, because you just sit there and you go, oh, wow. I'm watching all these thoughts go by, and, like, gee, one minute I'm happy, one minute I'm sad, one minute I hate this person, one minute I love this person. Like, so they're like, you're you're kinda you kinda oh, this is just my monkey mind. You know?

This is not real. Exactly. And it's it's a really powerful practice. So let's kinda go back to the the root root, because you said nine times out of 10, it's usually something from your past, like from your trauma or your childhood or some. And, you know, other times it's your cultural conditioning, or maybe the other person.

But if that's true, you know, how do you how do we think about starting to heal emotional wounds? Because people do therapy, people are doing things like Hoffman, which is an intensive group process to work through that. People are doing psychedelic medicine therapy, like MDMA therapy, or psilocybin therapy. How how do people start to kind of really go back and excavate? I call I call it soul archaeology.

How do you go back and dig and find out what's going on there that helps you unpack it?

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. This is a very important question. And I believe that there is not just one way to heal. I know people who have had profound breakthroughs in therapy. I haven't.

And, you know, I know people who have been in therapy for years and years and years, and nothing's changing. And I know people who've been in therapy, and it was, like, the best thing that's ever happened to them. I I sort of see it as, like, two part approach, which is are you so number one, like, are you experiencing any sort of psychosomatic symptoms? So, like, are you are you experiencing any sort of physical pain or illness that could be a result of your nervous system being chronically dysregulated because you're chronically stressed because you haven't you haven't dealt with certain emotions. Right?

And so in that way, I find somatic work to be incredibly healing. But to me, sometimes the most, the most profound somatic work I've ever done and, you know, I've been a yoga practitioner for almost thirty years. So Yeah. Beyond exercise is is fun. Having fun, remembering that you are alive and and whether that's with friends.

Yeah. Playing and and connection. I have found that to be profound. And I think that another part is, you know, because I've dealt with so much grief and heartbreak and I've helped thousands of people overcome heartbreak is really the story that we tell ourselves about that heartbreak. When we can be more mindful and look at things from different perspectives, that can be incredibly healing.

Like, for example, I healed by understanding that if someone betrayed me or was really wrong to me or wasn't the right father that, you know, they should have been, I recognize that it's not personal. I recognize, like, there's something going on with them. So being able to look at the story differently, that's healing. Being able for some people some people have no idea how their childhood impacts their current reality. And in that regard, therapy can be wildly impactful in a great way.

But if you have all the people who are who have all the awareness, they've done the Hoffmann process, they've done this, they've done and they're still not getting better or they're still not feeling better. You know, sometimes it's it's it boils down to the fact that they are they're valuing certain things in their life that's not helping them. Sometimes it means they actually have to help other people because they're too wrapped up in their own problems. So you asked the question, like, how do we heal this? And I'm answering it in a way like, this is not it's not just one answer.

It's so it's so multifaceted. And what works for one person doesn't work for another. But I will say this, for most people who've, like, done everything and they still feel stuck, look at your beliefs about yourself and about the world and your and your world. Get out of your head by helping someone else in a in a big way so that you stop thinking about you and yourself, and then figure out if there's anything stuck in your body and nervous system. And that's it.

Not easy.

Dr. Mark Hyman
The somatic work's important because a lot of the stuff is stored in your body. So it's not you can't intellectualize it. You can't just know the story, and it's not fully metabolized and and kind of letting you be free and not have that automatic reaction. So that's that's a tough one. I think a lot of somatic therapies can be really helpful.

The you know, there there's a number of tools out there. Know it's important to be able to investigate your own thinking. It's clear what you're talking about. And to do other modalities, then try things that work. Because it's not it's not one size fits all for everybody.

But it's important to understand that that, you know, often what's showing up in the relationship is your five year old or your eight year old, not your 35 year old or your 50 year old or your 60 year old. And that and and having that understanding that you're both both people in a relationship are are operating usually from that unconscious place. I think Carl Jung said it clearly, you know, if you you don't examine your unconscious, it will basically control your life. So I think that that's kind of what most people are stuck in. Let's sort of talk about heartbreak because you you mentioned a few times, and I think it is something people really struggle with.

And it it causes depression. It can cause real dysfunction in life. It can cause suicide and other more serious things. You've helped thousands of people navigate this. So give us a sense of how do we how do we navigate that if if anybody listening is going through that on a on a relationship level or on even a grief level for loss of someone they love.

You know?

Jillian Turecki
Well, let's let's talk about it from a, like, a divorce breakup perspective. You know? Most people, not every breakup is created equal, obviously, but there are some breakups that really bring us to our knees. And for those that are really traumatic, it's just like an emotional catastrophe. Yeah.

You have to what's really useful for people to understand is that you are going to go through a temporary insanity. It's it really is that. You are not going to feel in your right mind. You're going to feel like you're going through withdrawal. You are going to feel like you're not good enough.

Your mind is going you're going to ruminate. You're not going to feel like yourself. You're going to you're going to feel insane. And that's because there's just so much going on. Some people are are divorcing after twenty years together, and then you're trying to figure out who am I if I am not this in this relationship.

So there's an identity crisis that's happening. A lot of people are then fearful. They're fearful of the unknown. They're fearful that no one's gonna love them again. They're fearful of you know, they're sometimes you think you're crying over this person, but really what's happening is that it's unearthing old pain.

So you're crying for the father that you never had or the mother you never had. So some of these breakups can be can can, like I said, be a real emotional catastrophe. And so I think the first point the first part is just understanding that, like, you're going to be okay. This is incredibly difficult for everyone. No one no one no one gets out of heartbreak.

There's no way to circumvent to circumvent the pain of a broken heart. It's just it's part it's part of the human the human condition. And then you want

Dr. Mark Hyman
People could be in it for years. Like, I you know, I've I've

Jillian Turecki
seen Which people is a crisis, I see. That's a that's step

Dr. Mark Hyman
I literally know someone whose, you know, husband died thirty years ago, and they're still constantly talking about them, can't let it go, or in grief constantly. Yeah. Their life is completely spiraled. I mean, it's just That's very sad. It's quite an extreme situation, but how do how so we all go through this process, what you're saying.

It's inevitable. You can't avoid it. You have to lean into it. And then what? Like, at some point, you kinda have to get sorted.

You know?

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. So I wanna address the woman that you just spoke about who's still grieving her late husband, you said, of that who died forty years ago. I wanna address that because I think it's important. But but people write into me all the time saying, you know, it's been two years. It's been three years.

You know? Some people are saying, you know, it's been six months. When am I gonna get over this person? I'm like, you know what? Six months is nothing.

Like, you need you're gonna you're gonna have to face this a little bit longer. But for some people, it's like, it's a really long time. And what I've discovered is that it's it's not about they're not really grieving the relationship anymore. They are actually stuck in the story of what happened. That's number one.

Number two, something else is going on in their life that is making it difficult to move on. So they almost always what I find is that there's also they're not happy with work or they're having, an issue with a family member. So they're not they're they're it's extremely contextual, and it's not just about them. And so they can't get themselves out of the emotional state of sadness or whatever the grief because there's there's other things that are not working in their life. So, therefore, the path to healing is to not focus on the the relationship, is to not focus on getting over that person, but to focus on what's else is missing from that person's life and to help them, know, whatever, get a better job, find their purpose, find community, work on their bodies, whatever it is that's happening.

And that's how they actually start to heal. So it becomes less about the other person because the thing is is that we put so much focus on that situation when really something else is happening. Similarly, like, I know people who will, like, go back to the person who's, like, totally wrong for them, like, doesn't wanna commit, you know, doesn't even treat them that well. And they're like, you know, I get really strong. I break up with them, and I keep going back.

Like, what is it? Well, you know, sometimes it's just the sex is great, but, like, it's not just that. It's this person there's always context. That person almost always is feeling untethered from their family, community, or from purpose. And so because they feel untethered, they go back to something that's familiar that is give meeting their needs in the moment.

It's meeting their needs for connection in the moment. It's meeting their needs for, you know, significance in the moment, but it's always an an example or a symptom of something else. Rarely do you have the person who's like, I feel great in my life. I feel connected. I feel connected to self, and they keep going back to the person who treats them like crap.

It doesn't happen. So for the woman, for your friend who's still grieving, the loss of her husband from thirty years ago, there's different strategies. One that really helps is, her doing something in that honors her late husband so that she doesn't feel so alone in the world. She actually honors him. Also, there could be something else going on in her life that's making it very difficult for her to move on.

If there's oh, you know, people are so interesting. That's why I love the work that I do and why it can be very tricky on social media, especially with people saying, if you're feeling this, well, then this is this is because this is happening. And and it's rarely the case when you speak to someone, you see that there is this whole holistic tapestry, and there's this whole thing that's going on. And if you really wanna help someone change, you have to look at the other things that are missing in their life and help them meet their needs.

Dr. Mark Hyman
So it's really looking at, you know, the kaleidoscope of their life and where things aren't working and and people tend to kind of project it onto relationship, and you're saying it starts with you. Right? It

Jillian Turecki
begins with you. It always starts with you. Right? Yeah. It starts with you.

And I think I wanna help people understand themselves better. I wanna help people understand their behavior more because then then it then they don't feel so lost in it. And that's where suffering comes from.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Suffering comes from feeling lost and not knowing how to navigate?

Jillian Turecki
I think true suffering comes feeling from feeling completely out of control to change your circumstances. I think that's that that causes suffering more than anything else.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, you know, one of the things you talk about, Jillian, is is sort of what makes relationships work. What are the sort of nonnegotiables? Would you mind sharing a little bit about what those are so people can understand what a what a healthy relation looks like, what it feels like, how you think about it and define it?

Jillian Turecki
Respect and trust. That's the baseline. That's the foundation that creates emotional safety. If you don't feel respected or you don't respect the other, you've got you've got no leg to stand on. If you don't trust the other person, trust them to be there for you, trust them to be your friend, trust them to not stray from the relationship, there's nothing.

And then it's how you deal with conflict. How you do and and conflict is really in the repair. Do you have an argument and then do you ignore each other for a week? Do you have an argument and not talk about it and sweep it under the rug and then get very resentful? So it's really in how you deal with repair and respect and trust.

So you build that through the way that you communicate. You build that by the way that you listen. You build the respect and trust by by being good friends to each other. You build that by being reliable. You build that by by understanding like, men and women fundamentally don't understand each other.

So if you're in a in a heterosexual relationship, you need to understand what your partner needs, and you need to be able to meet their needs. And most people are only concerned about their own needs and getting their own needs met.

Dr. Mark Hyman
And it has to be explicit. You know, often then we can read each other's minds, but we can't.

Jillian Turecki
No. We can't.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Curious is a good is a good quality to have in a relationship. Being curious about what they're experiencing about them as human beings. Loved. Yeah. Yeah.

This whole idea of rupture repair is something a friend of mine who's a couples therapist talks about. You know, we have these ruptures in relationship, and the key is how do we repair? You you say relationships don't die because of lack of love, but because people stop feeling connected, and and they have these ruptures and these little tiny death by a thousand cuts. How how can couples rebuild a connection if if it's faded or it's lost in the process of this constant kind of rupture, rupture, rupture without repair? I mean, how do they kind of get back on track?

Jillian Turecki
By first asking yourself, how am I complicit in what it is that I say I don't want in this relationship?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. Oh, that's a big one. Look in the mirror.

Jillian Turecki
Look in the mirror.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Nobody wants to do that.

Jillian Turecki
Nobody wants

Dr. Mark Hyman
to No. It's your fault. You did it to me.

Jillian Turecki
It's the

Dr. Mark Hyman
blame game. Yeah.

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. So that is the first step. What can I do differently?

Dr. Mark Hyman
No. So have you shown up in a way that actually contributes to the dynamic rather than saying, oh, it's only this person, but,

Jillian Turecki
like Yes.

Dr. Mark Hyman
The old adage it takes to detangle is actually true is what you're saying.

Jillian Turecki
It very much so. I mean, of course, in some cases, it's not. And, definitely, there are cases where there's one person who's more of the problem, but you have to this is not easy, but it's necessary. You have to have the mindset of, I'm gonna show up in the best way that I possibly can for me. And if it and if it changes things, great.

And if it doesn't, then I know that maybe this isn't the right relationship for me. But it repair it the it just you can you cannot change another person. You can only change yourself. And people tend to but we can influence another person. And the way that we influence another person is by changing ourselves and also by understanding, number one, human nature and understanding your partner's nature.

Like, everybody wants to feel understood. Everyone wants to feel appreciated. Everyone wants to feel like they're listened to. So maybe the first step is I'm gonna be a better listener. I'm gonna just come into this and just be a better listener rather than trying to always prove my point.

Dr. Mark Hyman
No. I was gonna say that that that is not an easy thing to do. You know, there's a whole

Jillian Turecki
process of

Dr. Mark Hyman
nonviolent communication, you know, how to have crucial conversations, nonviolent communications. A lot of work on this, how to how to actively listen. These are skills, and you can learn them. You know? And and it it's not easy to put aside your narrative, your story, your beliefs, your projections, and deeply listen to what the other person's experiencing from a place of love and compassion without having to correct them or fix it or change it or have them even be right, but just to validate them as a human being.

It's one of the most powerful unlocks that I found in relationship, and the most powerful tools to actually get present enough to do that. But that's hard. You have to know how to navigate your nervous system and be able to hold that discomfort in your nervous system as you're listening without

Jillian Turecki
Yes.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Interrupting, without talking over, without correcting. And it's really it's one of the most important relationship skills that we were never taught in school. Yeah. But it works. It's it's like a magic trick.

And and there's a lot of resources out there. I think people, you know, will put in the show notes around things like active listening or the nonmal communication work or crucial conversations and other tools, but there there there there really is a methodology to it. And I think it's an incredible tool. I'm also curious from your perspective, you know, people are listening and and they understand the context. I think people would agree with mostly what you're saying.

But, you know, there's a question of how how do people actually start to acquire these tools? What are the what are the practical tools who wanna start building better relationships, healing their relationship with themself? It it's not immediately obvious to people how to do that.

Jillian Turecki
I'm gonna get to that, but there's something that I wanna say about communication repair because it's incredibly important, which is this. We talked about the mind creating stories. So the first step is, have I been am I stuck in a story about my partner that has made them into the anime? And do what are my rules that they have broken that has made it so that I am so angry at them?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Your unconscious rules.

Jillian Turecki
Yes. But now we have to make that and then we have to make them conscious. Exactly. Like, oh, they're always late, and I have a belief system that if someone's late for me, they don't respect me. So I'm angry at them.

When really maybe from their from their perspective, they're always late because of some it's not because they don't respect you. You know? So we always have these rules, and it's and we have to have some rules that are sort of like our boundaries in a relationship. But sometimes we we have so many rules, and we make it really easy for our partner to fail instead of it making it easy for our partner to win. And that's where we have to get very, very honest with ourselves, which is am I making it really easy for my partner to fail with me?

And is this something that I is this a pattern that I have if I'm really honest in my relationships? Or for other people.

Dr. Mark Hyman
And you set up all the expectations. They should behave like this. They should do that. They didn't do this. They did do this.

I don't like that. And then you, you know, you in your mind, you're you're keeping a list Yes. Basically, a scorecard. And and and then it's either expressed in the moment or it builds up over time and it gets exploded in some crisis. But that that that's kinda what usually is generating the the challenge.

And Yes. Sometimes you know what those are consciously, what those requirements are. Like, I need my husband to put the toilet seat down or whatever. You know? But or I need to, like, him to close the cupboards.

That's my thing. I don't close the cupboards. I, like I'm not good at that. I'm learning. I'm I'm learning.

Learning. But like There's funny thing

Jillian Turecki
that fun men do. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Whatever my partner's issue is with that, that might be coming from her sense of a need for things to be in order or control, and it's different than how I experience things.

Jillian Turecki
So Yes.

Dr. Mark Hyman
You know, there's a way to sort of understand, like, your unconscious assumptions about how things should be as the way, not a way.

Jillian Turecki
Exactly. And I

Dr. Mark Hyman
think we have to we have to sort of relax a little bit and go, wait a minute. There's a lot of ways to do things. And if things are really strong preferences of mine, like, want the bed made every morning, I'm like, why make the bed? You're gonna mess up at night. She's like, I like to have the bed nice in the day.

I'm like, okay. Great. You know, like, I I can I can do that? So I make the bed every morning when I get out of bed after her. And yeah.

But it's but it's but it's those simple things that, like, which you can actually start to kinda be conscious of. And then if there are things that aren't in integrity with you, like, to me, it's like I am not out of integrity with myself, I make the bed. But if I betray her, I'm out of integrity with myself, and I do something to accommodate a thing that I don't think I should it doesn't feel good to me, then that's sort of a sort of a betrayal of yourself. It's a betrayal of your partner because you're not telling them the truth that you feel. It's hard to tell the truth, and you talk about how in relationships often there's these unsaid things that build up over time, and they in in Buddhism, it's like they call it the dust on the mirror.

You know, the dust accumulates on the mirror. How do you keep a clear mirror so you can see what's what's present? So how how do you help people navigate that?

Jillian Turecki
Well, sort of just like what we were saying. You know, you said something really important, which is that it's good to it's good to be in a it's good to be accommodating in your relationship. It's it's good to just do things for your partner. It's good to be that kind of partner that but you don't obviously wanna do things that's gonna portray betray yourself and your integrity. But, like, if something's really important to your partner, like and it's not something that by you doing it, you're, like, betraying who you who you are, do it.

Do it. And if your partner is not actually doing it, like, can you just let it go? Like so I'm gonna make this very basic. There is a lot that you're just going to have to tolerate in the person who you live with. And can you have a more flexible, easygoing perspective and mindset when it comes to your relationship?

The people who do are happier in their relationships. People who are extremely rigid are actually unhappier in their relationships. And so that doesn't mean again, we're not you know, because I I work with a lot of people who do betray themselves in relationships and really, really horrendous stuff, but we're not talking about that right now. You know? So I, you know, I was speaking to someone.

She's she and her partner, they've been together for, like, twelve years, and they have an amazing relationship. And she said, you know, there's they're both very different. And she said, I love her so much, and I love the relationship so much that, like, doing thing like, going out of my way to do certain things that I know is just gonna make her comfortable doesn't feel like a sacrifice to me. It feels like I am just adding adding energy and money to the emotional bank account of our relationship.

Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean, I think that's important. I mean, the the the there's a whole framework around, you know, making deposits in your emotional bank account versus withdrawals, and how do you do more deposits than withdrawal? You know, like, five to one or 10 to one ratio in order to keep things that good. Right?

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. You just wanna be a giver, and you don't wanna be someone who just gives and gives and gives with no boundaries, and you don't wanna be someone who just gives because you wanna get. But you just you know, this idea of generosity, like, emotional generosity. People who are just emotionally generous generally make the best partners. And those who are keeping score all the time are usually a nightmare to be in a relationship with.

Dr. Mark Hyman
I think I think, you know, what you're speaking to is is a deeper thing for people is this sort of sense of being out of control and the need to be in control. And the more out of control you are inside, the more you want to control your external environment to make you safe. But, you know, in relationships, that really backfires because, you know, you're you're not actually in relationship to the authentic moment. You're in relationship to some past trauma, or or hurt, or belief. And and so that that's a very important sort of thing for people to understand, and it's also it's so hardwired into people's nervous system.

So it takes a lot of work to resolve that.

Jillian Turecki
It's practice. It's practice. And sometimes when you're just like so for some people, it's like a light switch goes off in their mind. They're like, wow. I never thought of it that way.

You know, I just and some pee there's not just one way to have a relationship. Some people, the best thing that could ever happen to them is to be in a committed relationship but don't live together. You know, not everyone is actually meant to live together.

Dr. Mark Hyman
My my mother said when my my stepfather retired, she says, married him for better or worse, but not for lunch.

Jillian Turecki
For not lunch. I love that. Exactly.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Better or worse, but not for lunch.

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. So figure out I love that. That's great. Figure out what works for you. And also, like, where I find that people really struggle is being able to differentiate what a true character defect is versus something that is just a little annoying, but but it's worth it to tolerate because all the rest is good.

Dr. Mark Hyman
In terms of the the nine truths you talk about in the book, you talk about these nine truths about love that are

Jillian Turecki
Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Really important to think about, and they're they're hard truths. Can you unpack that a little bit? Because I think, you know, you you basically present them as a as a life changing toolkit and and things that if you follow these truths and you kinda internalize them, they can transform you transform your relationships and your life.

Jillian Turecki
So I thought about these nine truths for about four years and really worked on them and thought about, like, you know, what would I wanna leave behind as, like, the most important principles that we don't learn in school. And, you know, I certainly didn't learn them in the therapy office, and I just didn't learn them. And I wanted them to be I wanted them to help people regardless of what their relationship status was or is. You know, the first one, which is the title of the book, which begins with you, means, like, it's just nothing changes in your life. You you have to be the change that you wish to see in your life, and that includes your love life.

And it's not about, you know, the problem is just you. It's just about nothing is going to change, and we have to be responsible for our choices. And that and it's not I wrote it in such a way it was important for me to convey that this is not a slap on the wrist. This was more like, see, you are actually more in control than you think. Because to be out of control, like I said, is where people suffer the most, and that you are you can actually make change.

It doesn't even matter how terrible your childhood was. Like, you really can make change, but you have to understand these truths. And so that's why I went into I I thought about everything. Just also, like, the power of the mind and I, you know, after because I worked with thousands of people, like, thou in a very short period of time. And because I really wanted to get incredibly skilled in my craft.

And there were just these common themes. And one of it is just, like, I knew the nature of the mind because I've been studying the nature of the mind for many years through the practice of yoga. And you you referenced the monkey mind. This idea that the mind is sort of a battlefield and that if we don't what what's going to interfere with a relationship more than anything else is what goes up and up. It goes on up in our minds.

It's the way that we Yeah. Always. Because if we're living more in our hearts, we're gonna have a lot less relationship problems, but it's hard. You know? We've been hurt.

We've been hurt. And, you know, there's also it's also cultural. Like, we live in a society that's that really that really encourages us to think more and feel less, and that's a part of it. And then there was this lust is not love, and no one is coming to save you, and you have to make peace with your parents. And these were and, actually, you do have to love yourself, but I explained what loving yourself really actually means.

And these are the things that are that are important, and they're ongoing, but they're meant to be a sort of guideline. And I, to this day, stand by those truths as as the most important ones.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Powerful. I I think I wanna just double click on what you just said. And that mostly the trouble in relationships comes from our mind, not our heart. And that many of us wall off our hearts to protect ourselves from abandonment, pain, suffering, loss, whatever. And it's very hard to keep your heart open in, one, relationship to your trauma, and two, in relationship to another person, which, you know, you might be projecting things on from your past, or you might, you know, have an actual legitimate problem within the moment.

And so how do you keep your heart open in difficult times? And how do you maintain that when your brain is the mind is the one that's sort of hijacking the narrative?

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. It's very difficult. I think one is just to become aware of the fact that you are afraid, that you you know because most people are on autopilot, blocking their hearts, living in their heads. It's and and we talked you know, we at the very beginning, you know, people on YouTube want to know about triggers. If you can first just acknowledge, I am afraid right now that underneath the anger, underneath the trigger, underneath the pulling away all of that, you are afraid.

And what you're afraid of is that you are not good enough and that because you're not a good enough because you're not good enough, you are somehow going to be deprived of love. That is the fear that underlies all problems in relationships. It does not matter who you are. That is the fear that somehow you are inadequate and not gonna be good enough. And there is nothing like a romantic relationship where you love someone and you're attached to someone that exposes that vulnerability and that makes us feel so vulnerable.

And so everyone has these sort of adaptive strategies of how they can not be abandoned or how they cannot be engulfed by the relationship. You know, they're afraid they're gonna lose themselves, and so if they lose themselves and they're actually not going to actually get the love that they want, it all boils down to the one thing that everybody wants, and that's love.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Period.

Jillian Turecki
End of story. That is it.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. It's where we're all scared little kids trying to get love and messing it up along the way.

Jillian Turecki
Yeah. And love is, you know, in the form for some people, that that's in the form of appreciation, respect, understanding. All these things are in the umbrella of love. So first, you just have to acknowledge, which is what I start my book with, everything boils down to if you peel away the onion, it's just a it's you are afraid. So to start to get back into your heart I mean, I've I've worked with a lot of people who have been betrayed in relationships or they've been in a some sort of abusive relationship or they lost themselves or they're codependent, whatever it is, like, those kind of problems.

And they have to kind of remove themselves from the equation and learn how to have, like, a greater sense of self. And and they have to protect their hearts because they've opened their hearts to all the wrong people. But if we're just looking at the framework of a relationship, when people can like get into their bodies and then the tear the tears start to form, you know, that and they were angry, but the tears then start to form and the vulnerability starts to come out. That's when people bond again. But what's keeping them from bonding is just like, you did this and and I don't like this, and we're so stuck in here, and we're so closed off in the heart, causes all the problems.

And so how do you go back into it? It begins with understanding, okay. I'm afraid right now. Like, this is what's going on with me right now.

Dr. Mark Hyman
That's beautiful. That's really beautiful. I mean, I think having that present moment awareness is something also I think you're really talking about because none of this is possible if you don't have a relationship with your mind that is at least aware. It doesn't have to be healthy, but at least you go, oh, jeez. I'm having that stupid thought.

Or, oh, I you know, it's like I'm sure everybody in life at some point in their life has thought of killing themselves. You know? Like, this is too hard. I can't take it. And like but you don't do it because you don't believe that, and you go, that's Yes.

You know, like, you know, when it's but but on the little stuff, we we just believe it. Yeah. So meditation, yoga, different practices can really help to to bring you into the present moment. And it's it's something we don't really value in this culture. It's something we're taught to do.

It's not something we learn how to do. I mean, I was lucky. I I majored in Buddhism, and I would do ten day meditation retreats when I was like 18 or 19 years old. And I it was like I was like, wow. I can sit there for ten days, twelve hours of meditation a day, and I begin to watch the movie that was my mind.

And I was like, this is interesting. And I don't have to you know, I'm like, this is really interesting. And it, you know, it didn't fix everything for me, but it really helped me to kinda create this spaciousness between my thoughts and my and my actions or my words. So I was like, wait a minute. I don't have to not all this is real or or or true.

And Yeah. And that's not something that's easy for you to to manage. Like that that pause that Viktor Frankl talks about, like that that moment where there's a space, and it could be like a millisecond, because usually the the thoughts gets translated into a feeling and to an action or a word in literally milliseconds. So how do you just stretch that out a little bit and not just say stupid shit?

Jillian Turecki
By shifting your focus. See, where focus goes, all the energy flows. So from shifting your focus from something you're angry about to something you're grateful about, from shifting your focus from I'm so angry with this person to maybe they're really hurting right now.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Having compassion, empathy.

Jillian Turecki
Having compassion. Don't have don't have too much empathy for the person who's harming you, but that all that aside, yeah, compassion, empathy, the ability to put yourself you know, there's that old saying, can you put yourself in someone else's shoes? Well, something that is profoundly impactful in relationships is I you know, I sometimes I ask someone, I want you to literally step into this person's not literally, but as best as you can, step into this person's body. Become them. Step into their nervous system.

Start to breathe like them. Start to stand like them or sit like them. Like, become them. And I have them close their eyes and really sort of mimic and say and then I ask them, what what does this person believe from their perspective? You're them.

You're not you. And that's a very powerful exercise in empathy. But, also, it's also about partnering. It's about I always say there's two there's two keys to a successful relationship. Who you choose, because most people don't choose the right partner, and who you choose to be in that relationship.

Are you the right partner? But a lot of people don't choose. They choose the person who's gonna who's just knows exactly how to poke every single button. And, you know, you can work through that. And if you both are willing to really work through that and and grow spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, and just and just grow.

But for people who are, like, single and, like, looking for a relationship, don't go for the person who pushes every single button.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. You gotta fix your picker. My friend once told

Jillian Turecki
me Yeah. You gotta fix your picker. Exactly.

Dr. Mark Hyman
You know? Because that's hard because the enemy's really getting to know yourself and understanding that probably the person you're attracted to is often not the right person because you're

Jillian Turecki
Well, that's not true.

Dr. Mark Hyman
You're actually often It's working not true?

Jillian Turecki
Well, I mean

Dr. Mark Hyman
For me, it's been true. I've like I've been picking the wrong people for a long time, and I think that and I think that I I began to break that pattern and fix my picker, and that was really a huge revelation for me. Was like, oh, I'm choosing women who are x y z because that's actually how my mother was. And so once I unraveled that, I was no longer a prisoner to that. That's what I that's what I meant by it.

Jillian Turecki
Yes. That's that is very true. But sometimes you choose the wrong person because you have a misguided under there's so many different reasons why people choose the wrong person. One is is because and I do you wanna go into this? Because I think this might be valuable for your listeners.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I think it's a good, yeah, it's a good place to stop because, you know, if you're gonna be in a healthy relationship, you have to know how to choose the right person.

Jillian Turecki
So Yeah. And I And people love this.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Go for it. Go for it, Joe.

Jillian Turecki
So if you are in a place like you were, like, okay. My picker is off. First, I have to just say, yes. That could be true, but always always consider that it's never just the other person. It's also something that you've been doing in relationships that needs to change.

Okay? So I just have to say that because it's very important. But let's just say your picker is off. You are just find yourself attracted to people who don't want you back or who don't treat you well or just like a mismatch for you. One thing is, like you said, I'm I'm going off like, I have some unfinished business with my mom, and I am seeking out the familiar.

And this woman these women who I'm choosing are actually very, very familiar even though they're incredibly wrong for me. So that's very, very true, and that is the theory of all psychologists, and it's and and there's truth to it. It's not the whole story. If you're someone who values looks more than character, then you're gonna keep going for the people who might be really good looking, but you're not taking any time to discover their character.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Mhmm.

Jillian Turecki
So that doesn't mean don't value looks, but it means if you want a relationship, you better value character. So there's a lot of people who keep picking the wrong person because they're they do not value or understand the value of a person's character. Then there are people who keep choosing the wrong person because they are not thinking about what it actually takes to build a relationship for the long term. And that if you wanna build a relationship for the long term versus you wanna just have, like, a fling, you need to look for for other things, like alignment in core values, alignment in what a life well lived is, alignment in, you know, this person really complements me. They have strengths where I have weaknesses and vice versa.

So people don't think about these things.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Mhmm.

Jillian Turecki
And so they keep repeating the same pattern over and over again.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. That's

Jillian Turecki
I wanted to add that because I think it's important.

Dr. Mark Hyman
No. It's important. Thank you. And I just wanna say everybody, Jillian has a whole wealth of resources out there. So this is just the tip of the iceberg.

First, it begins with you. I think that's a very important book you wrote that is out now, and I think everybody's gonna for sure get a copy. And they can find you on social media, on your website, and lots of courses. So maybe tell us how they find you on social media, your website, and some of the courses you do so people can actually get some resources. People are listening going, well, that sounds good.

Well, now what? And so Yeah. What's the now what?

Jillian Turecki
So the now what would be my podcast, Jillian on Love, because I take I basically do solo episodes. I don't really do interviews very much, so I go I go I do deep dives into sort of these theories. The Now What, obviously, is my book. It begins with you, my my social media, all over social media. And then I yeah.

I have I have courses for heartbreak. I have courses for choosing the right person. I have courses for couples, and I have a membership for women called the Conscious Women for women who are really trying to break patterns and become them their best selves. You can all find this on my website.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Great. And we'll put it all in the show notes. Thank you again for coming on the podcast, for your own discovery that's led to the insights that could help many people in this one area, which many people find challenging. Anyways, it's even harder than health, you know, and some for a lot of people. So I I really I think it's really one of the key aspects of health.

When you look at longevity, when you look at health metrics, having healthy relationships and social connections is probably as important as what you eat, or how much you're exercising, or how much you sleep. So it's really one of the core pillars of health and wellness, and I really appreciate your work and what you've done. And everybody definitely check out Julian's work, and thank you again for doing what you do.

Jillian Turecki
Oh, thank you, Mark. Thank you for doing what you do and it's been a pleasure to talk to you today.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Jillian gave us so many tools for improving our relationships. What's the one idea you're gonna try in your own life? Let me know in the comments below. If you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. You can find me on all social media channels at Doctor Mark Hyman.

Please reach out, I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to The Doctor Hyman show wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at Doctor Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on the doctor Hyman show.

This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center, my work at Cleveland Clinic, and Function Health where I am chief medical officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.

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Thanks so much again for listening.